Why Are We Dieing ? or Dead

[tradedemon]

Hey guys,

Looks like we got to start up from ground roots. A good place to start is maybe discussing why signaturebar.com is dieing , and if anyone is interested in saving it ?

TD

[~RF XceLLenT]

I'm interested in saving signaturebar... but I don't know how we can do this effectively :S

[tradedemon]

Well that makes two of us now :) I guess if we stick around on this thread, we may found out ? Let's see if anyone else chimes in ...

[~flow+]

it would be great to see sigbar back alive, but recently i haven't done anything with photoshop and not been really much on computer so i think that i'm not that guy who could save sigbar...
but i might take part to some ideas actualization ;)

[tradedemon]

Yeah not to worry and I think I've already concluded it's going to have to be some fresh blood that gets things going. Everyone else has moved on :)

[nejko]

Try a promotion event.

[tradedemon]

Yeah I'm reluctant to promote as right now there's nothing happening here. i.e. you can only promote something that is actually good and happening.

If we promote and the forums dead it will still be dead ... :) But your suggestion is noted, atleast you replied ... :)

[+Os. Nighteyes]

I think there is still a market for signatures. Therefore, it is necessary that whoever runs the site place an importance in completing requests.

Go back to what made sigbar popular, fulfilling requests.

[Wolvy]

I check in daily, but when i dont see any flashing posts ( :p ) I generally leave. I guess im at fault on a personal level, tons of people still check in, its just no one is posting

[+Os. 407370]

i would really like to save SIGBAR.

This place got me interested in graphics and tought me a lot, thanks JEFF, Noobie (Farrah) was a brilliant MOD and I liked her, partial reasons for sticking around but people move on, life moves on.

Get people dedicated to bringing back the enthusiasm , easier said than done. Other graphics sites are having the same fate. I wish I could think of something more but......

CHEERS

[BenVolio]

Err...


Well, I'm newish.


I feel like one of my last posts was in a thread like this...

[tradedemon]

I think most of the old members only have memories here, most of you guys who are posting here had a good time here and you like the site but ultimately relying on others to post kind of really indicates that you've also moved on :) Which is not a bad thing it's just a part of life.

I think focussing on sig requests is probably the way to go but I still need a leader and someone who'll be interested in doing that because they enjoy it :)

We'll see what happens otherwise we'll close up shop.

[Zinny]

I really don't want to see this forum die-- as you yourself stated, it holds so many memories for us.

I'd love to get back into Sig-making if I had the time [and can find PS or figure out GIMP...]
Here's to hoping someone steps up and we can keep Sigbar up and running!

[beary funny]

I just joined O_O

[tradedemon]

Welcome to the site Beary :) the site as always continues to pull new members...

[ausboxing]

Just come across this site and its fantastic :)

[Nefarious]

I would suggest a reset. There is too much content and people will most certainly get lost. There is, in my opinion, no reason to maintain or keep any of the old content. Of course you'll back it up, but I think if you just wiped it, that if some of us older members posted a few threads, we could get a few new bloods to show interest.

A small town with lots of room to grow is much more appealing than a empty town with a lot of space and remnants of a time when it was hustlin' and bustlin.

[Kenney]

I would suggest a reset. There is too much content and people will most certainly get lost. There is, in my opinion, no reason to maintain or keep any of the old content. Of course you'll back it up, but I think if you just wiped it, that if some of us older members posted a few threads, we could get a few new bloods to show interest.

A small town with lots of room to grow is much more appealing than a empty town with a lot of space and remnants of a time when it was hustlin' and bustlin.

I think the old glory has always interested people to show of signature bar in all it's glory!

Because this site is actually rare, you have nice friendly people that always want to help you. I started of some months ago but due to lack of time I didn't get the chance to evolve and there for I couldn't learn more things... I think its the case with most new people to I guess.

[Nefarious]

For me, Kenney, dying is not the process which people find glorious. Fermentation, rotting, stench, mold, oxidation, fading, dissolving, decay, et cetera. When we look at grave stone, we are not seeing the carcass, but the exhibition of sculpted rock which reminds us its subject. In the case of Ruins, we are not perceiving the death, but the metaphorical aged skeleton of once was. Neither of these are we perceiving the dying aspect of the idea, rather the associative memory via tombstone, or the remnants of something that was great.

If there is something beautiful to be said about dying, it would be how the "flora and fauna" which you once feasted upon would feast upon you, completing a cycle which gives no regard for the vanity of sentient beings.

In the software industry, there is generally a few elephants in the room, but the most annoying is "Legacy Software." It bloats, it slows down, and it makes change take longer. The content of the website goes back years and it irrelevant today. I doubt anyone goes back and reads them. The problem with forums is they aren't like a feed, like a wall. They are very hierarchical, much like a tree. What is best for people when having discussions or sharing is more like a river which flows through time. Where the new content might be the mouth of the river, and it flows back. Exactly how a Facebook wall works, or Canv.as, I think even Flicker. But to solve the forum problem it might be best to carve a new channel and let water flow in. Because right now our channel is blocked by debris and is polluted with unnecessary things.

[Kenney]

Ah, well I'm more of an outsider and it was just my humble opinion about this place that it would be a waste if the content would get lost, since I have seen many artworks here in which I never could imagine these works to have such an effect on "viewers".

note: I don't think it's glorious either but I meant that you can find people on here that really have such a talent which you can learn from!

[tradedemon]

Very poetic and deep Nefarious, and I do get where you're coming from :) However I don't think we need to delete, prune or re-shape the site in it's current form. The old threads do get searched and pulled up and it also gives new members an idea of the past and previous glory. I think that adds character and pedigree to a site.

In terms of the future I do agree that a new start in terms of the management and how things are run is needed, so I think both are possible. i.e. keep the old stuff but feel young and new again.

It's all about time and effort, and if someone steps up to the plate to bring that new found youth to the site then we're a go. Otherwise I'll simply close down the forums until we do have some interest.

Either way it's really heart warming to see people respond to this thread and care about the site. So whether I agree or disagree with someone on this thread just rest assured that I still appreciate everyones response :)

[Storm]

like i said in the previous thread, its nice to see so many replies...

it seems if we post about the site dying we get a response... but other sections arnt that active?

ima walk over to sotw and see how its going

[Nefarious]

Very poetic and deep Nefarious, and I do get where you're coming from :) However I don't think we need to delete, prune or re-shape the site in it's current form. The old threads do get searched and pulled up and it also gives new members an idea of the past and previous glory. I think that adds character and pedigree to a site.

Thanks, part of it was from Neil deGrasse Tyson, great educator. So I can't assume all of the credit.

"I would request that my body in death be buried, not cremated, so that the energy content contained with in it gets returned to the earth, so that flora and fauna can dine upon it just as I've dined upon flora and fauna throughout my life." - Neil deGrasse Tyson

I do agree that it adds that "pedigree", the idea that this is a legitimate site, not some under the rock deal. Though still, I find the excess bulk a little overwhelming. Maybe there can be something done to help that, because I am sure that I am not the only one who feels that the forums are a little bulky, especially for how little new content gets generated.

In terms of the future I do agree that a new start in terms of the management and how things are run is needed, so I think both are possible. i.e. keep the old stuff but feel young and new again.

Definitely. We don't need to try to restart what already was, but to try to push it in a new way, because the way it was obviously isn't working anymore. Best to get someone relatively new. Though personally, I have difficulty trusting any really new people (no offense to newcomers, but I am sure you understand).

[tradedemon]

Yup one of the problems of hiring fresh talent. and I'll check out Neil deGrasse Tyson.

For now it seems just a few of us actually posting and talking about real issues and topics seems to be getting people on again. Maybe that's all it is. Start simple and post a little every day.

Slowly revive the sharing of work and maybe down the line more active comps. It's true that many of the sections on the site are unlikely to come back to live ever again since we just don't have the man power... so something has to be done. We'll see.

[Nefarious]

We have had discussions in the past, but those don't hold. The difference is this is not small talk, and the others were. Maybe if people invested more time into quality posts.

No fingers pointed.

Some good conversations I like are dealing with philosophy and religion, though I tend to avoid politics. Politics doesn't generally give good conversations because it is generally just polemics, and that isn't very interesting and mostly tiresome. People just spewing out ideologies, gross. Same issue can happen with religion, but I tend to be able to tenderize the topic enough to get some juices out of it.

Some other topics that might be interesting would be of higher forms of art and culture. One of which I personally enjoy is photography. I do like UI design too, though that isn't necessarily higher culture per se. Documentaries are good conversation starters, as well as meaningful films.

I think maybe we can brainstorm some topics and start threads in general and whatnot. It would, I imagine, keep people interested. But more importantly, it would attract people who do participate in similar conversations that share interests with members that already exist. This would mean that for people who are here, we have more interaction thus enjoy more. Not only that, but the new people would likely be the more serious type who would invest time in SignatureBar, since we are exhibiting the same attributes.

I'll start a thread on one of the topics I mentioned. I hope that people take my example and come up with some very interesting subjects.

[tradedemon]

Sounds good I'll jump in and give my views :)

[Katharsix]

I can help, I guess.
Even though i got 0 GFX skills, I can still comment and say my opinion.
I mean, If that helps. :P

[Chum]

well, i would like to help. I have left this site mainly because i have personal things going on and had little free time

However, I now have the summer holiday so i can help out in anyway i can!

This site allowed my interest in graphics to become what it is today, and i will never turn around and let this site die. Without this site, i dont think i would be a graphic artisit at all.

So i am ready to help in anyway possible. And i do mean it. I can lead the request section althought i never really did like doing requests but im willing to do it for the greater good.

[+Os. Nighteyes]

I would be willing to do a couple of requests every now and then if there's somebody to help me out

[Kenney]

Maybe something fresh would be some sort of learning school for newcomers?

When I firstly became a part of the community Storm embraced my stay with open arms assisting me on msn with advice and such. So maybe you could try as you do with the "clans" for SOTW.

A group of people that are interested attracting new people and following them up on how they evolve? Maybe it's something that might work?

[Karnak]

how about bringing up old sotws and bsotws for ppl to vote on? some real oldskool stuff...

dropping in an idea. :)

i really dont want to see sigbar die, since it's one of the last GFX forums out there... and the one i have been on for basically my whole GFX life :D

havnt been active really... got work to do... :/ i still check in almost every day

i guess we have to start out from small things, try diff things and see what interests people.

[tradedemon]

All good ideas guys, I've been trying to update the main site with more of the tuts and resources posted here so that we rank for more search terms on google and in google images.

Seems like some activity is beginning to brew again, we'll have to see where we go with this. But definitely seems like people don't want us to die so I guess that's a good thing.

@Karnak - Yeah might be a good idea but I'm still inclined to see how things go right now. See how are traffic and members grow. I think the key thing is helping others that's what most people remember from the history and past on Sigbar i.e. they got help in improving their gfx.

[Karnak]

yeah, hmm, how about irc channel? or any kind of direct chat system... irc channnels are free too :D

it would be great help for some new gfxers, since ppl could share tuts, tips, and inspirative art there. also "noobs" would get their answers quite fast too :D coz i guess ppl are not intrested in throwing a topic and then waiting 2days to get answer for simple trick ^^

this way people could chat easily, get quick feedback and most importantly, grow the spirit of sigbar, i mean, when everybody are connected through this awesome website, we all basically know each other etc.

seen this stuff work in several gaming servers. ^^

also just an idea to think about someday :)

[troyvimala]

I don't want SigBar to die, seriously. What we can do ? Hmm..Maybe, we can try to remake the forums, into a cooler style, with cooler emoticons. Create an atmosphere that comforts us. And for the orange guy banner...We Should change it. It makes us look, uh...somehow it sucks. Maybe try to create a thread asking for Gfxers to compete to change the Orange Guy banner.
That's all I can say now, waiting your opinions.

[lokifeyson]

just need to stick to the basics :)

[tradedemon]

As long as everyone is still sharing there work people will stay interested. I probably need to get more involved and share my work in illustration and web design. For those that are moving on from sigs and moving into more commercial or professional work it might be good motivation.

I also need to get myself a decent camera to share more info about me.. Looking for one now lol. Maybe a Nikon SLR.

[vfx.Munnsie]

I think the problem here is retaining members.
First impressions are everything, and comparing the look of this site to other gfx sites that are running ipb, many people would rather use the more dynamic looking ipb forums. Additionally, other forums running ipb seem to have a more community feel, due to the shoutbox addons and such. This forum always lacked that feel for me, i hardly knew anyone really, other than storm, flow and gee.

imo, changing forum platform may be worth trying, maybe not to ipb, but xenforo looks quite good too

also i think the reluctance to offer staff opportunities played a part. afterall if theres nothing to work towards theres no point in working. that is what caused me to leave, i worked on bsotw, worked hard, but it just became pointless for me in the end. i was able to find opportunities on other forums with ease. And now i'm a full moderator on that forum, probably due to become admin.

thats basically it really, overall just being on here is boring, you cant talk to others easily, and cant work towards a goal.

[Duskz]

I know I'm new here -- and for that I apologize on tossing in my newbie opinion -- but I have often found that forums that are to spread out die fairly often. Taking this theory and comparing it here makes me further believe that the notion is true. If you look back to the primary forum, you'll see that you have over 42 different sections! D= That is almost an astounding amount!

Condensing is sometimes a much more effective means at stirring up conversation than segregating thoughts. For instance, your 'General chat and discussion' area is fairly sparse, which can lead to areas becoming stagnant or still in movement. Once a person sees areas becoming 'still' they become less motivated to converse in other areas. Eventually they retract the bare essentials of the sites. <--- Or so I believe that's kinda' how it goes. On a side note, the site has this general 'very busy' feel to it, and that might discourage new comers from giving it a try.

Far be it for me to know the golden cure or what-not, but I think condensing a lot of the sub-forums is necessary to maintain liveliness. Though, as inactive as it is right now, I'll be browsing around for shiggles.

Edit:

I know I must sound annoying by now, but I thought I should add on that the simple 'glance' of outdated posts is a great deterrent as of current. It takes a tremendous amount of fortitude from a person when thinking of 'being active' when all they see are posts that were long and far ago, ya' know?

[SuperSora]

I know I'm new here -- and for that I apologize on tossing in my newbie opinion -- but I have often found that forums that are to spread out die fairly often. Taking this theory and comparing it here makes me further believe that the notion is true. If you look back to the primary forum, you'll see that you have over 42 different sections! D= That is almost an astounding amount!

Condensing is sometimes a much more effective means at stirring up conversation than segregating thoughts. For instance, your 'General chat and discussion' area is fairly sparse, which can lead to areas becoming stagnant or still in movement. Once a person sees areas becoming 'still' they become less motivated to converse in other areas. Eventually they retract the bare essentials of the sites. <--- Or so I believe that's kinda' how it goes. On a side note, the site has this general 'very busy' feel to it, and that might discourage new comers from giving it a try.

Far be it for me to know the golden cure or what-not, but I think condensing a lot of the sub-forums is necessary to maintain liveliness. Though, as inactive as it is right now, I'll be browsing around for shiggles.

Edit:

I know I must sound annoying by now, but I thought I should add on that the simple 'glance' of outdated posts is a great deterrent as of current. It takes a tremendous amount of fortitude from a person when thinking of 'being active' when all they see are posts that were long and far ago, ya' know?

THAT is the smartest post I have read on any forum in a while. Straight, simple and none of it screaming "Im new but im the best" attitude anywhere since you are new. You don't give off the vibe of being an incompetent prick either.

Good post. It was much needed.

[troyvimala]

Let's don't talk much and do more, should we ?

[Chum]

well, i dno if this will help, but im gonna start compiling masses of resources and start making tutorials to help liven things up. If anyone wants to help with making a resource pack just send me a PM

[Entity]

Hmmm....

I haven't been on this site in a while now, sad to see that it's dying =/

i used to check Sigbar like 2-4times a day, mainly to fullfill requests. If there is anything i can do to help i'm down.

[Duskz]

well, i dno if this will help, but im gonna start compiling masses of resources and start making tutorials to help liven things up. If anyone wants to help with making a resource pack just send me a PM

Nom-nom, tutorials.

[vfx.Munnsie]

Mind if I give my two cents?

Your question is pretty straight forward and direct, "Why Are We Dieing?"
I can answer that question with an experience of mine that I had here from last summer (2010).
I made a pretty simple signature request that took way more than it should have. I had the exact same request completed by two other graphics forums in less than half the time it took someone here to even pay attention to mine. I brought the issue of time to your attention and received a warning over PM for bumping my topic. In this PM you will be able to see the link to the topic. In the topic pay attention to the date of the original post (06-24-2010) and the post where Storm (your admin) claims he has completed the signature and closed the topic (08-04-2010).

The slow request responses walks hand in hand with the falling activity to be honest.
Many people just come here to leech signatures, thats stopped now the requests just aren't done.

In my view, this forum needs to move away from its requests to gain members, and focus more on helping people develop their skills.

[Sanity]

Off topic but I can personally guarantee to become an active member and reach 100 meaningful posts on these forums within the next month if someone can complete my emergency graphics request!! Also, I'll tell people I know about these forums and how helpful you can be....
reallly need the help guys

[Entity]

In my view, this forum needs to move away from its requests to gain members, and focus more on helping people develop their skills.

I disagree, this was the reason i joined this forum back in the day, a main reason i stopped filling requests and being active here was i felt every time i posted something of my own work, i felt i got a sense of negative feedback (without it actually being said) along the lines of "good but alot of work needed" ....thats it no way to improve

[Shakuz]

Off topic but I can personally guarantee to become an active member and reach 100 meaningful posts on these forums within the next month if someone can complete my emergency graphics request!! Also, I'll tell people I know about these forums and how helpful you can be....
reallly need the help guys

this is true man, i agree all u say

[tradedemon]

Dry feedback can be a killer...

[fiqe]

I must say it would be truly sad to see the site gone.

Hey, by the way. Nice to see some of the, from my point of view, foundation to still be around.
Evening Loki! Hat off to you Chum! As well as you Storm! And of course you, Trade, and the rest of you who I might have not spotted.

Having seen quite a bit of the transformation, or evolution of the site, I can't imagine it dying. I guess I was in the second "wave" of joiners, and having seen quite a lot of sites dying, I agree with you Trade, that you need a leader. A new Noobie. I just hope you'll find one since although I may not be that interested in signatures anymore, there is an interest out there, and this has always been a fantastic community.

I'll keep watching you from the shadows, I may not post that much but I've always kept an eye on the site. It was after all, quite the sanctuary for me during a period of my life.

Regards,
Hugo

[SkullTraill]

Oh my God! It has been soooooooo long!! Just logged in today to see some tuts. Man I hope tis place doesn't die. It was fabulous!!

[inasadYBFC]

I think a reset is a viable solution. That way new people are more likely to get involved since they will feel more like they are building something rather than just desperately trying to get feedback and getting what others have mentioned the classic "good job, but needs a lot of work" line.

[Immortal Technique]

There definitely needs to be more publicity. More people with signatures from sigbar. That way people'll be like, "That's cool, i want to go get a sig!" lol.

[TimSimm2]

exactly. i made a post about this yesterday. no one ever gets on anymore.. just came back after a near 1 year hiatus and im disappointed lol

[Donagh]

I wanted to start "playing" with PS again and I came back to this cool forum but sadly it looks dead :(
what hapend here ? :|

[WotNoName]

By the look of it the admin have all given up or disappeared and the only super mod to log in is ~flow+

I just checked the request pages and there's still a [Completed] post I did back in 14th November 2010

Spammer like fayyazahmad are resurrecting very old posts or writing junk to get their links on as many pages as possible.

the SOTW was last run on 18th September 2011

Like the rest of you who remember what it was like, I find it wholly depressing to see the forum like this but the only way it will ever get back on its feet is if it has an effective admin.

[Donagh]

Thats realy sad i used to like this place alot had a great time and learn alot about PS/Sigs/UBs
I had alot of time to come here and after i loged in yesterday i was kinda disapointed i wasn't expeting that could hapend :(

[Storm]

well everyone is out of ideas and trade being so busy doesn't help much

we cant bring users too the forums, they leave because where dead...

[WotNoName]

Hey there Storm sorry I missed you out on the super mod list, I don't know how I managed it :)

I'd not take the forum collapsing too hard as I've seen it happening to countless other sites too. I wonder if its all down to the changing nature of how we use the internet ?

[Storm]

Maybe...

and you missed me because i haven't been active